Should we instruct or educate? Emancipate through art works or try to adapt students to society? Should we set the knowledge of transmission against the transmission of knowledge? We must undoubtedly first get beyond vain quarrels. Because the stakes are enormous: the authority of the teacher and knowledge are no longer obvious, difficult class or not, and too many children remain on the side of the road of republican elitism. A discussion far from the stereotypical debates, between two authors who know that the malaise in civilization is henceforth expressed in the schoolyards.